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 Thermostat adjustment 
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Post Thermostat adjustment
I posted this in my Thing thread, but cross-posting here for visibility & content in the right area eh...

As y'all know, I went through all the trouble to assemble all the correct
thermostat parts for the Thing - flaps, connection rod, pull rod that goes down
through the head, t-stat bracket and t-stat (thanks Ted! and Ed!).

I had all in except for the actual t-stat and bracket until yesterday.

I tested the thermostat, both in boiling water, and after I installed it and had
it all bolted up (I used a small torch and my IR Thermometer) - it opens
smoothly right around 190F.

My problem is the adjustment - you're supposed to screw the t-stat all the way
up onto the pull rod, and with the flaps open, you adjust the bracket so that it
just contacts the top of the thermostat.
You then pull the t-stat/rod down to the bottom of the bracket, fit the t-stat
into the slot and bolt it in. The flaps should now be held closed, and pushed
open as the t-stat opens up.

Well, when I put mine in, there isn't nearly enough slack in the bracket to get
it down to the top of the thermostat, so when I pull it down to bolt up, there's
only like 1/8 inch pull - which really doesn't close the flaps appreciably. I
can, in fact, still feel a great deal of air blowing out of the tin..

i drove to work today (34deg) and confirmed the hypothesis - engine never
reached proper operating temp and t-stat never opened up. IR thermometer only
has me getting up to the 120's.

So, what gives? I kinda think in the back of my mind that I've seen 2 styles of
thermostats over the years.. "fat" and "thin"..
or could there be different styles of brackets or pull-rods?

Other than the adjustment procedure, the manuals I have (Bentley bus manual and
Thing dealer shop manual) are rather vague on the parts involved.

Anyone messed with them much?

Halp!

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Brian W. | St. Louis MO
'64 SO-33 Hatch-Top Westy
'73 Thing
'87 Vanagon Syncro Westy / Subaru EZ30d conversion


Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:52 am
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
:oops:
i don't think Any of mine have a thermostat hooked up ,,, i just let 'em warm up for a few minutes, b4 taking off down the street :shock:


Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:46 pm
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
David wrote:
:oops:
i don't think Any of mine have a thermostat hooked up ,,, i just let 'em warm up for a few minutes, b4 taking off down the street :shock:


How's that motor like the watery, frothy oil in the winter? :wink:

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Brian W. | St. Louis MO
'64 SO-33 Hatch-Top Westy
'73 Thing
'87 Vanagon Syncro Westy / Subaru EZ30d conversion


Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:29 pm
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
I can't tell you the first thing about T1 engine thermostat adjustment, but I can applaud you for using one. Even in the hottest weather here, 110 max, the engine still runs a bit before it opens on my T4. VW, an economy car company, did not put useless junk on their cars, barring emissions crap. All cars have thermostats, why not our air-cooled cars? Also the heater heats up much faster in the winter time with one. And with the coolest winter weather, the flaps may not open all the way, helping the engine stay at optimal temperature.


Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:03 pm
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
tootype2crazy wrote:
I can't tell you the first thing about T1 engine thermostat adjustment, but I can applaud you for using one. Even in the hottest weather here, 110 max, the engine still runs a bit before it opens on my T4. VW, an economy car company, did not put useless junk on their cars, barring emissions crap. All cars have thermostats, why not our air-cooled cars? Also the heater heats up much faster in the winter time with one. And with the coolest winter weather, the flaps may not open all the way, helping the engine stay at optimal temperature.


EXACTLY.

My concern here of course is more that I'm never obtaining a proper fully-closed position as my starting point.
For my drive home at 67F temp, it was fully open when I got home, with the IR thermometer reading 180-ish around the case at various points, and thermostat, and 200-210ish right on the heads. Perfect.

I would think though at temps just above freezing, I should still reach the same operating temp after 9 miles of city driving.

Cold engines lead to water and more importantly - fuel - condensation, which breaks down and contaminates your oil on the cylinder walls. Not good for a healthy engine.


I do know from experience that a T1 w/freash air boxes won't do shit for heat in the dead of winter w/out the t-stat.

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Brian W. | St. Louis MO
'64 SO-33 Hatch-Top Westy
'73 Thing
'87 Vanagon Syncro Westy / Subaru EZ30d conversion


Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:47 pm
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
:lol:
hahahah, heat in a splitty bus ,,, really funny stuff ,,,, unless you have a s.cab or cab-divider ,,,
don't notice any watery, frothy oil ,, ??!?! :roll:


Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:52 pm
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
David wrote:
:lol:
hahahah, heat in a splitty bus ,,, really funny stuff ,,,, unless you have a s.cab or cab-divider ,,,
don't notice any watery, frothy oil ,, ??!?! :roll:


If you have a thermostat (and door seals) then yes, heat in a splitty bus. Not like in a Type 1, but you will notice it. My Westy will get warmish up front. The 21-window I had didn't do as good though, but you could still feel it.

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Brian W. | St. Louis MO
'64 SO-33 Hatch-Top Westy
'73 Thing
'87 Vanagon Syncro Westy / Subaru EZ30d conversion


Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:07 am
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
I have working thermostats and flap systems in all of my motors except on the 1776 in my '70 Ghia Coupe. And that'll be fixed soon enough when I pull the 1776 and re-install the actual correct-numbered original 1600 single-port motor (all rebuilt and refreshed) that the factory installed in my Ghia back in 1970, complete with flaps and thermostat. I'm a "thermo" kinda guy too...

Bill


Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:00 pm
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
I have the t-stat and flaps in both of mine. I haven't had any problems as far as operating rod throw. Did you test the movement of the flaps before assembling everything? I don't think there are different styles of German t-stats...only German and Mexi.
I check to make sure my flaps are all the way open when the t-stat is fully expanded. This may mean that the flaps are not completely closed when cold.
I was actually curious about how fast the flaps opened so I fit a microswitch on Scoops. It lights up an LED on the dash until the flaps are all the way open. It takes about 10-15 minutes of in town driving.
It's important to note that when the flaps are all the way open, they also direct air to important parts of the heads.

And we all know about the reliability of David's vehicles... :lol:

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Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:42 pm
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
:lol:
hahaha
& f@ck you, Too , cully ! :mrgreen:
~ 140k miles on bulli s.cab, more than 160k on ol'Yeller, & over 260k on busterBrown ,,, so-o-o-o-o unreliable ,,, :shock:
:roll:
w0w, a Whole 10-15 minutes !?!?!? ,,, yeh, now THAT should make a Lot of difference !!! :roll:
*face palm
:lol:


Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:45 am
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
Yeah, those VW engineers...idiots all, I tells ya.

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Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:11 pm
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
yup ! 1939 technology ,,, for apline winters !
:lol:
just how many a/c motorcycle engines have thermostats ?!?!?
:roll:


Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:56 pm
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
Not that it really matters, but here goes.
Neither one of my VWs (occasional driver SC, daily driver bug) had thermostats at first. Wanting everything to be correct, I put the setup in the SC and noticed an immediate improvement in warmup times, and head temps were a few degrees cooler once it warmed up (basic measurements with an IR thermometer). Plus it really helped with the cabin heat, and ran better all around.
The big difference was with the bug. 40 degree days sucked since the thing never warmed up by the time I got to work, and it was sluggish all the way. I put the assembly in and the difference was huge. I actually had heat before I got to work, and it ran better all around. Summer head temps were also a bit lower.

So yeah, that's my experience. Do what you want!

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Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:29 pm
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
David wrote:
yup ! 1939 technology ,,, for apline winters !


which are milder than our winters here in the midwest/plains. not that it matters. Thermostats are important year-round. And correct me if I'm wrong, but modern cars still come with them, so what does it matter if it's "1939" tech?

Have you ever seen anyone completely remove their thermostat on a water-cooled year-round daily driver??

Anyway, I didn't start a thread to getting into a fight over why you should or should not use one (and you should) but to gain insight into why I'm not able to adjust to a fully-closed, or even close to a closed, position before running out of adjustment.
It just seems like even in temps of mid-30's, I should still have reached operating temp on my commute.

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Brian W. | St. Louis MO
'64 SO-33 Hatch-Top Westy
'73 Thing
'87 Vanagon Syncro Westy / Subaru EZ30d conversion


Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:40 am
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Post Re: Thermostat adjustment
Sorry can't help ya Brian. As like DB, I've never ran them in any of my VWs in the 15yrs I've been driving them. The system is always missing pieces and I was never keen on relying on that little accordian thermostat. Would hate to be driving on a hot day with my shroud flaps closed.

You guys got me thinking about putting them on my VWs though. I drive the 40hp Beetle pretty much daily year round. 30min/30mile commute each way. Heat works good, takes about 5 miles to start blowing warm, roasting by half way. My commute is pretty much all highway, live next to the hwy and work next to it too.

Do have sluggish problems on cold mornings until I get up to 4th. Of course I always let the engine warm up at least a few mins, more on colder days. Never any issues w/ frauthy or watery oil. Don't have one of those fancy IR thermos to check my engine temps, or a gauge for that matter. Still use the old fashion can you touch the dipstick method. :lol:


Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:25 pm
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